Nine days to the Knight

Evocation Time

Most folks didn’t hear from me the past 9 days, or seemed “removed” due to the fact that I was preparing for another Goetic evocation. I decided to evoke the Knight again and see what I might be able to further learn from him. My evocations get increasingly better with each round and I’m hoping this is any area I come to “perfect” one day, if there is such a thing. AS most know who read my blog, I’m mostly only interested to evocation to full visual and auditory presence concerning the Ars Goetia of the Lemegeton.

It’s always interesting undergoing this ritualistic purification time. The whole magical act from retreat, abstaining and fasting, to building and preparing all the magical equipment is a noteworthy magical act in and of itself. I must admit, the nine days aren’t exactly easy for me and I find all sorts of circumstances arise when I have my mind set on focusing solely on magical ritual. As I do not have the luxury to remove myself to some solitary cabin in the woods or magician’s hermitage, I have to make do with moderating my day to day life with magical intrigue. Determined to not be distracted, trying to be “holy”, and immediately cease various habits and ways of thinking can be difficult as the days and hours role on. It seems certain spirits put further tests in your way to challenge your resolve and determination. Regardless, I refreshed my memory to recite the conjurations from heart and reconnected my will to come into alignment with the art.

For this evocation, I decided to borrow my close friend’s garage, as he lived just behind me and his family was not using it for anything for the time being. It had just enough room to do my operation and I thought I could make it work perfectly. In this time I constructed a new parchment hexagram, had a standing iron brazier or chafing dish, custom made. I also tried a few other experiments like Asterion Mage’s consecration and 9 day blessing ritual for the Hyssop oil for anointing my eyes and brows with; a very suitable and worthwhile exercise by my appraisal.

I must say I was fairly pleased with how everything was coming together and the new methods I was learning.

new hexagram design
Halfway through my days of purification, I became a bit worried as the garage needed to be tidied up and I was running out of time for getting it ready. Luckily, my friend and his family and I all came together and got it prepared in the nick of time. The very next day I decided to bless the “temple” space by doing an impromptu ritual which Dr. Lisiewski recommends in His HOWLINGS From THE PIT book. It involves taking 9 white unscented candles and placing them in the area of the 9 foot circle and during an aspersion ritual with holy water and prayers. I also did some intense Middle Pillar type exercises and I incensed the entire chamber with church incense. For a closing, I decided to use the “Benediction of the Place” found in Ars Notoria: The Notory Art of Solomon:

The Benediction of the place.
“Blesse Oh Lord this place, that there may be in it Holy Sanctity, chastity, meekness, victory, holiness, humility, goodness, plenty, obedience of the Law, to the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; Hear Oh Lord, holy Father, Almighty eternal God; and send thy Holy Angel Michael, who may protect, keep, preserve and visit me, dwelling in this Tabernacle, by him who liveth, &c”
It was nice to see how much the atmosphere of a place could be changed after performing that work.
The Sunday before my operation I attended a local Catholic Church for Mass and received the Eucharist and underwent confession and gathered some holy water as well as stocking up on some more baptismal water which has come in handy. I attended Mass once again, the day before my ritual and received communion one more time before undergoing my operation. The acknowledgement to the Catholic faith and ritual has been pleasant and interesting although I was not raised Catholic and the religion still feels somewhat foreign. I respect and acknowledge it for the origin of the magicians of the grimories among other things. I also became very aware of the passion for which the prayers can alter one’s consciousness when said with honest integrity and an open heart. Much of what their about use to seem completely outdated and somewhat disagreeable in ways but I found myself really reaching beyond the bare letters to what they desire: Connection to divinity.
My operation was to begin at the twilight before Dawn which was about 5:1`8 am. The night before I went to bed early to get a bit of rest and ended up rising at 3:30 am for my ritual bath, prayer, and meditation before the ceremony. I then dressed in my white linen undergarments which consist of pants and a shirt of linen over my under-under garments. I loaded up the rest of my small important gear in the car and headed over to my friends long before the sun was up. No one was around and I appreciated the silence. My friend had given me the key to the garage to make sure it was secure, which I was happy about, since my circle tarp, candle sticks, altar table, and a few other important ritual equipment had been brought there the night before to make everything ready. Upon arriving in the garage/temple I arranged all the major furniture and folded my vestments and linen vesture in a neat pile near one wall.

I readied all the equipment through the chamber and lit the coals to have them ready by the time I began the invocations.
I owe a lot of success and the particulars of my methods of conjurations to Mr. J.K (Imperial Arts) whom I’ve molded my efforts of Goetic workings after. He mentions in his writings that he does not fill the room with incense smoke but rather gives it as an offering to the spirit AFTER its arrival. I haven’t quite been able to pull this method off and I vouched to incense the room thoroughly before evocation from the indication that the smoke does seem to have some correlation to the spirit forming its ethereal body and also from the Goetia’s direct quote which states:
“The other materialls is [are] a sceptre or sword; a miter or cap, a long white Robe of Linnen, with shoes and other Clothes for ye purpose also a girdle of Lyons skin 3 Inches broad, with all the names about it as is about the uttermost round [part of the] Circle, & also perfumes and a chafin [chafing] dish of Charcoles kindled to put the fumes into; to smoke or perfume yee place appointed for action. also annoynting oyles to anoynt yr Temples & Eyes wth; & fair water to wash yrselves in. & in so doeing yu are to say as david said (viz)” (Bold mine)
Here it sates the ritual area is intended to be incensed and smoked in and by itself, as a matter of course and before the actual evocation.

The main beeswax candle that made the holy lamp for my altar was lit first. ( if you plan on reading ANYTHING or writing down the spirit’s remarks or recalling questions, etc. you will NEED a light of some sort when doing evocations at night). It was pitch black in those early hours and the KoS style candle was an essential, practical item. (The 4 outer candles didn’t quite cut it) I took a moment to connect to the divine in order to “get out of my own way” enough to let the bliss take over as I spoke. I’m still working on this but each time gets better. was impressed by how well I actually remember the lengthy conjurations though and never tripped up once after reciting each a few times.

The conjurations took quite a few recitations to bring any sense of the spirit’s arrival around. During this time it can be extremely difficult not to let feelings of doubt and despair creep in.

When the atmosphere finally changed, and by changed I mean the walls where the spirit was to appear sort of blacked out and seemed to vanish without any discernible parameters. I started seeing small sparks or rather small flashes of colored lights and a few streaks in my peripheral vision and the incense smoke seemed to condense into a thick wall. I was a bit confused however as the glowing smoke that seemed to collect near the triangle did not form the spirit as I expected it to. At first the spirit seemed hesitant to arrive as if something was keeping it from fully arriving. After a time though I noticed a large shadow on the wall that came into sharper view and the shadow seemed to become more and more discernible as the seconds went on. I simply stood there staring at it as it did so. It looked as if it simply came off the wall and formed itself into three-dimensional space. The image, which at first was a dark silhouette, became an apparition of an aged knight riding a rather large horse. By “large”, I suppose I mean that it was life size and took up the whole wall of the chamber. I guess I expect them to sometimes be more compacted and to scale of the triangle. It appeared as an apparition not like in the sense that I could see through it, but that it appeared as if I was looking through a thick fog or smoke at it (which in actuality I was, the Myrrh incense was pretty abundant through the room).
The knight Furcas could be seen in profile and looked a lot younger and healthier than I remembered seeing it the first time. It/he sill had the long white beard and stern look but with more vigor in his face than before. The weapon thing he held in his right hand in a downward slant was an uneven, two pointed looking spear which I had not seen in the physical world anywhere (and I know my weapons). He regarded me with a brooding stern, yet patient expression and simply waited. I gave the Address, removing my new parchment eight inch “card” hexagram from a linen pouch I made to hang from my lion belt and held it up before the spirit. At that time the knight dismounted and stood nearer to me within the triangle. I set the hexagram in front of my altar lantern and noticed how the glow of the altar lamp seemed to glow through the parchment so it could clearly be seen by the spirit in vivid detail.

I had chosen to contact him again after consideration furthering my progress with spirit contact and interaction and also at the suggestion of my magical colleague and goetic mentor, Mr. J.K. (Imperial Arts). A sheet of questions and a separate sheet for the charges were written out with a veritable sheep skin parchment seal that would be used for the contract, or if things got disagreeable, to be placed in the black box with sulfur and asafoetida.
I had difficulty hearing the spirit’s reply’s to my questions and what it said to me despite asking it to “speak clearer and louder” which after a while I took to be some fault of my own. The spirit also seemed somewhat restless and I saw the darkened windows begin to gray with the approach of dawn before I knew it and found myself running out of time. I issued my charge to it regardless, the full contents of which I am keeping to myself. It seemed agreeable to the terms although I cannot say I feel completely satisfied with the clarity of the exchange. As it grew lighter I felt the atmosphere almost lifting on its own accord so I recited the license to depart and waited until the garage became, just an empty garage once more. I knelt before the table in the circle and opened my handwritten copy of the Goetic prayers and invocations to where I recorded

The Conclusion of the whole work, and Confirmation of the Science obtained.
“Oh God, Maker of all things; who hast created all things out of nothing; who hast wonderfully created the Heaven and Earth, and all things by degrees in order, in the beginning, with thy Son, by whom all things are made, and into whom all things shall at last return: Who art Alpha and Omega: I beseech thee though a sinner, & unworthy, that I may attain to my desired end in this Holy Art, speedily, and not lose the same by my sins; but do good unto [110] me, according to thy unspeakable mercy: who doth not to us after our sins, nor rewardeth us after our iniquities, Amen.”

This prayer is actually intended for the exercises and prayers of the “Ars Notoria: The Notory Art of Solomon” but it seemed fitting to add for my thanks for giving completed a goetic evocation to a degree and not being turned into ash or something. I also offered a prayer for my gratitude in being able to perform the rite. I packed up my ritual attire, feeling that the operation went well considering but still had a long way to go before I had any sense of mastery over this art. It was probably more humbling than anything but I did not have any precognitive feelings of dread or disorder thinking that the spirit had gained some sort of upper hand or something.

With study and practice over the years, the Goetia, as given in the Lemegeton has really seemed like an “updated” operation from a magus who was intimately familiar and initially well versed in the versions from the Key of Solomon and also the Heptameron. With obvious connections between the three, the inclusion of the Goetic spirit seals, increased measures of protections like the Solomonic ring and notable lion skin belt of names, this magician seemed to procure have more of a buffer zone between the spirit’s influences and himself than given in the two aforementioned arts. In my view, these inclusions and modifications were made by a magician(s) who took the lot of their experience and knowledge from other sources to make it into a unique, albeit personal, workable art.

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Morning evocation

Morning evocation with Eastern chora angel reminds me that angels are ill concerned for helping humans support a faulty fantasy of ourselves or some sense of deserved circumstance. Instead the angel revealed truth and the simple path for true happiness which does not match the glimmering temptations of society nor my haughty imaginings. Not only are these angels veritable beyond question, they shred the illusions and fallacies of this world in an hour of words and images shown in stark clarity. How much do I really want to connect to divinity, and the world of spirit? How much do we (I) just really want to be externally gratified and supported by a spirit to fulfill physical extravagances?

Ironically, I remember when my magical experiments began with questions of, “is it real? Will it work?”  Now the questions are “Can I live in the way which the being describes? Will I do what is required to really be what I said I desired to be?”  Its not complicated…Its ridiculously simple.

Simple, but not easy. Obviously, what it means to be a “great magician” is defined by an angel differently than my own ego. I’m wagering on the side of the angel having clearer view of reality than myself these days……all days. I wonder how many people would actually acknowledge the truth if it was shown to them when asked?

These writings are basically a copy from a great discussion I had on a private list of respected magicians…enjoy
I use to get so excited and revved up about this topic but I’ve debated it too many times. I’ve posted on other blogs, argued on lists and have read where magicians have gone back and forth about this topic SO here is where I stand based on EXPERINCE:
Basically the topic begins on a matter of degree and the certainty beyond imagination and clear channel in which one is -really- interacting with a spirit. I’ve found the people who argue the most against physical -appearance- and audibly hearing the spirit, are those who have never achieved it and who have never taken the time to TRY the operation as it is given in the grimoire.
Claiming something does or does not work a certain way without really having the experience in it, is obvious faulty reasoning.
The Solomonic list as well as others go on and on about this topic. Many of the posts are the sum of justifications for never really going all the way conducting the grimoric operation (as it is given in the text) while claiming to be some authority on the matter.

I don’t argue this topic with these magicians anymore. Some are quite gifted but still have no real experience in working a grimoric operation. To immediately jump to ATR methods, substitute folk methods or other ways before trying out the written instructions gives a magician ZERO experience working the grimoire. The amount of crap I’ve heard is astonishing consisting of every single justification, excuse, and reasoning known. I have yet to hear “I’ve constructed everything and performed the ritual just as it is given hundreeds of times and THEN I gave up.” You don’t hear that argument. Very few have impressed me or led me to believe they have gotten the true nature as to what any grimoire is about.

I have read where magicians say they did an impromptu evocation of so and so Goetia Spirit and they received the results they asked for even though they never saw or heard the spirit. To me this is not a successful account of an evocation. The answers to their requests could have been brought about by sympathetic magick, a local land spirit, their unconscious, spirit of an ancestor, the specter of the closet mop lady, or any number of possibilities, not to mention coincidence. This is a successful fulfillment of the “wish” or request, NOT the contact of the spirit they thought accomplished their task. It may have been, but just as easily may not have.

It would be like sending out a general email to a worldwide post with the heading “Pamela Anderson” asking for a signed photograph. Getting one in the mail a week later does not entail it came from her and would most likely be from anyone but her. The request was granted, but who knows from where or who. Many folks are satisfied with this type of “magick” but not me.

When it comes to specific spiritual beings I try to be as discerning as I can before claiming anything. Previous to the DSIC operation, I made contact with a few of the planetary angels I was quite sure I was “familiar” with. ( Such as Sachiel) After what I’ve experienced with the Trithemius art, I couldn’t be sure if I had contacted them, one of their subordinate (messenger spirits) or something else entirely that was of similar persuasion. The interaction was on a whole new level and felt as if I was “meeting” them for the first time.

(Perhaps its all my personal perspective of getting slightly closer to the ‘Source’)

Even now I am certain I have not witnessed the entirety of what some of these beings really are and I never care to. It’s been difficult fulfilling some day to day responsibilities with the lingering effects of their presence. I’m sure some aspects of my life have suffered in my attempts to cram so much cosmic goings-on into my little head while still trying to be “Mr. Successful Mundane”. True skrying is perfectly viable for these dealings. The effects can still be similar with the spirit’s presence impacting the atmosphere {signs of their arrival} and may still cause seemingly physical effects in the immediate environment. It does not have to be an evocation to “physical appearance” although I believe this is at the high end of the scale concerning spiritual contact. For me, its about my level of certainty and revelation that I’ve truly met a being beyond my own head. I may not completely understand what/who I’ve experienced, but at least I’m certain I did experience it. I can point out direct examples of how my life has improved or gifts of a certain kidn have obviously been bestowed upon me by the spirits I’ve talked to. However, I think the experience of them has been the hugest life changing phenomena I could ever relate.
After what I’ve experienced, I can understand how how most people might enjoy using simpler forms of invocation/evocation. .. At least in some cases, it would be more agreeable to use methods other than grimoric evocation to garner help from spiritual beings.

The degree of spirit-human interaction I believe can have a staunch impact on the psyche and field/spectrum-reality of the magician. It hasn’t become “common” or “comfortable”, for me and is still rather taxing at times. It is worth it in every fraction of the experience though.

I have come to believe that when a spirit, (demon or angel) is compelled to make its presence physically known, it bends a lot of “rules” and the unnaturalness of the event causes some sort of stress on the immediate environment as well as the magician. (Possibly the spirit as well) The degree or magnitude of the spirit’s presence can cause what Lisiewski (Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation/Howlings) termed the “slingshot” effect and others “paradox”. Basically, difficulties and incursions (which seem to manifest after an operation where the spirit appeared and affected the physical environment) occur in awkward manners in order to restore “normalcy”. At least that is how it has appeared to me and has caused some interesting and frustrating repercussions.

It seems like the conjured spirit has little if any involvement in these occurrences, and it is reality itself or a “moderator” which causes this phenomena to occur.

-Then why perform these sorts of evocations at all? –

The beings can be disturbing, bring nightmares, can leave you feeling more than a bit uneasy and cause that slingshot thing to occur. …….The reason is,
-The Affirmation of Introduction.

When I first attempted to conjure a Goetic Spirit it was interesting, spooky, and very much- VUAGE. I realized later I had no real confirmation of exactly what (if anything substantial) had been evoked. I could have contacted a weird vision of deceased ancestor for all I really knew. I saw an image yes, but it appeared like an apparition and did not “speak” so far as I could hear. It was a first step, something had happened, I got a sense that it (the grimoire) could at least “work”.

Before my grimoire obsession, I made many attempts to contact other beings, mostly Celtic related: Fae, godforms, genius loci, and Sidhe (ironically all following under or about the same heading). I experienced a few intense OBE/astral encounters where the being was seen and heard very clearly. Other times I made offerings and spoke aloud to spirits in the forest I couldn’t really “see” but indefinitely felt were there. I received the results I asked for and found this practice very agreeable which is why I continue it to this day. My intuition leads me to believe, spirits appreciate this type of interaction above many others. I felt my relations to the unseen inhabitants grow but wasn’t exactly sure who or what.

-In ceremonial/grimoric magick however, my goal is to {initially} contact a certain sprit, greet them face to face, become acquainted with them, first before asking anything from them. I cannot settle for anything generic because I cannot be certain of what/who is appearing and what/who is doing what for me. Results or gains have always been secondary on my list of goals concerning evocation. If I just needed something done, I’d most likely do anything other than evocation of a powerful spirit.
The topic of angelic evocation has been bantered about on a certain list as a few people have been posting in about their idle conversations with METETRON, of all angels. I cannot help but scoff just a bit and roll my eyes. If any interaction had taken place it was such a fractioned piece of a fraction that it would hardly be worth mentioning. Spirits can work in any manner they chose and this is not to say Metetron could not speak with these people.

Yet, again, it’s a matter of degree and channel. Just because I received a telegram from The Prime Minister’s assistant who dictated a reply to a secretary, does not mean I have any indication of whom or what the Prime minister is about. I got a reply sure, but from whom? For some, simply getting a reply is good enough. It was for me when I was just trying this stuff out, but I’m a little more skeptical with myself and the spirits these days and want to make sure I’m contacting who I intend. However, after initial contact, I am much apt to utilize a system like Josh’s or something simpler to make requests as I care less about ‘who’ accomplished them and more about getting it done. I feel more confident after initial introduction that I can contact the correct angel/spirit/demon/being after already meeting them. Each feels a bit different to me. Asking something from someone/thing I’ve never really met seems a little assuming if not rude. ( I like to ask the spirit what its able to do for me instead of just assuming it can because the grimore or another magician told me so)

‎”Real” results -to me anyway-, consist of beholding something in the UTMOST certainty possible. That is, perceiving and communicating clearly with the spirit I am contacting. I bypass this rule during some other magical workings with spirits besides grimoric evocation. I use the conjurations the grimoires use which state the spirit is to “come visibly and affably, speak unto me with a Clear voice Intelligible” anything besides this is a breaking of the stated terms and thus not a fulfillment of them. It keeps sincerity and integrity in what the operation is about. I didn’t spend years crafting belts out of expensive lion hide, days painting a circle, and months memorizing the conjurations for an ambiguous event in where I am not certain of what I experienced.
Magic, especially tradition, art based ritual magic is a slippery slope for those who begin to rationalize away and cut corners from the start…..I have yet to see where a magician has not compromised to the point of abandoning the art for a more imagery game style of “magic” when it comes to evocation…. ..

Although Joe Lisiewski’s writings tend to fume me and I see where hes stepped a bit beyond his humility 😉 I understand his scoffs at most “New Agers” out there and all the boasting “modified magicians” …..its a bit difficult to take ANYONE serious after you’ve actually witnessed the poundings on the wall, flashes of light, smells, moans, screams, voices, and visible appearance of a spirit…while these self-proclaimed authorities say these types phenomena don’t really matter, or they don’t really happen, or don’t denote true success of an evocation. To me, its a cop out, I smile yet feel sorry for the new magicians who settle for these words. a huge Light show is not required, but are the results of a profound spiritual evocation on the physical realm.

Now, let me CLARIFY some terminology: “Physical Appearance” confuses some into thinking that the magician meant a spirit “came into physical form”. I don’t think any respectable magicians have quite gone so far to claim a spirit became physically tangible. .
The spirit’s degree of possible ‘interaction’ with the physical world is something on paradoxical scale though. The most dynamic evidence of their presence besides their visible appearance is the poltergeist type activity: Winds, sounds, banging, objects moving, etc which seem to have no logical source. I’ve experienced this only a handful of times in my life but it is quite apparent and not vague in any way.

…. There always seems to be repercussions from the ‘unnaturalness’ of these events after which I don’t think is necessarily caused by the evoked spirit themselves. Some sort of strain or hiccup in the natural flow of things
.. An excellent story I heard from my anthropology class was about a researcher who went to investigate the powers of a shaman somewhere in the south Asian jungles. The shaman was curing an afflicted boy who’s disease was caused by a local demon the village people said. …. During the exorcism, the tribes folk all saw the demon fly out of the boy and break a limb of a tree with its body as it left. The anthropologist was present, felt strong winds arise and witnessed the breaking limb but could not see the demon…. A great case study as I recall, the researcher was amazed and quite disturbed but didn’t have the “aptitude” or mental language to see the spirit directly.. In the realm of hypnosis and mental/unconscious comprehension … You see this a lot.


Something interesting to note which I learned recently is that astrophysicists now agree that “Energy can become/turn into matter” A prospect that was rather fantastical sounding until recently. For them it has given credence to the “Big Boom” ..”creating SOMETHING out of “NOTHING” …It was exciting for me to learn because the more the explained it, the more magical/divine is sounded in rational terms.(it had to happen just so)…Energy when moved a very certain way (i.e intelligently) can create matter….The scientist have theorized on the “how” but not exactly “what” causes or can cause this to happen.

Despite my advocacy for visibly seen and directly heard spirits during magical evocation, I also argue how ridiculous it is for ANYTHING spiritual/nonphysical to need to LOOK like anything at all. That is to say I doubt fairly highly that spirits in their natural state look like anything at all or reside in places that have obviously physical references. “Heaven is a place paced with streets of gold..etc.” When we see Goetia spirits as a combination of various animals and anthropomorphic features, I think it is the attempt of our brains trying to decode purely spiritual and symbolic concepts into “physical” or visible representations…

This is a conclusion I came to after the length of time I spent experimenting with various people using hypnosis.

If someone has no subconscious frame of reference for a “thing” they cannot see it, cannot know it. Ironically this does not apply strictly to the spiritual….People have trouble SEEING something physically presences when they do not have a frame of reference for it. The brain will actually scramble to correlate something to what they know, often causing falters in observation and comprehension of what they are actually seeing. The reason why eyewitness and recalled memories are often not based on “fact” at all. Human beings are very poor observers when the multitude of variables are considered.

I see the complete act of magical/grimoric evocation as a way of actively altering the mind and comprehension sensors to be able to behold intelligences which are otherwise sublime and enigmatic to the point of being ‘vague invisibilities’. The involvement of the divine to help achieve this phenomena on our behalf, as well as the rigorous dedication which is needed to achieve these ends allows the experience to take place. The true reaction of which is what is described as “Divine Bliss” by Lisiewski. A very intense and unique experience which is why I cannot give much credence to the CASUAL SUMMONER who acts as if such feats are every day and cause little impact on his psyche.
What Lisiewski is describing, as well as myself, a few others are not the “spirit pot interactions”, tending to the shrines and ongoing relations with ancestor spirits, or petitions to spirits of various loci… These ARE veritable magical practices but NOT what the grimories are describing…..It frustrates me to see where current magicians are devolving the practices of the grimories into these methopds when they are quite obviously NOT the same practices.
..The state I was in in which the most intense and apparent phenomena occurred was when I was in a similar state of ‘transcendence’ I guess you could say from normal thought. Those times which are difficult to explain due to the lack of removed analytical reasoning. I had stopped ‘thinking’ about the evocation and and trying to make things happening and things ‘were just happening’ I was filled with such intense states of awareness I was unable to examine my ‘awareness’ until afterward. I did not expect anything to happen but KNEW what I was going to experience. The moments where I had no doubts, no arguments, no examinations beyond what was going on..( The (The mind stops analyzing the conjurations and each word is a certainty of express, for reaction) .INTENSE power and CERTAINTY which I continue to attribute to God: something way beyond “myself” weather from my HGA directly or the Source o Creation or both…it was if both and either did not matter as all was within at that time….That feeling of everything coming into alignment.. “Bliss” i guess is a good description. Its amazing but the times after can get strange and sort of backlash….Conception of reality and logical flow seems to get fragmented a bit….